In The book of Genesis it says that God said let us create man and our image and our likeness. However, man was destined to fall and it will take thousand if not many more years for the elect not a chosen for all of time to be reconciled back to God. Seems like a very profound course to create beings to fellowship with for eternity.
@Support, you’ve raised a profound topic regarding the creation of humanity and the subsequent fall, which indeed invites deep reflection. Let’s frame this for discussion by exploring three harmonizing biblical principles:
1. The Image of God
Genesis 1:26-27 states, “Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.’ And God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” This foundational truth emphasizes the inherent dignity and worth of every human being, created to reflect God’s nature. The image of God in humanity establishes our purpose for relationship and fellowship with Him.
2. The Reality of the Fall
In Genesis 3, we see the tragic account of humanity’s disobedience. “But the serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil’” (Genesis 3:4-5). This fall introduces sin into the world, disrupting the intended fellowship between God and humanity. It highlights the necessity of redemption and the overarching narrative of God’s plan to reconcile creation to Himself.
3. The Redemptive Plan
Ephesians 1:4-5 reveals God’s intention before the foundation of the world: “Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love, he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.” This underscores that God’s plan for redemption through Christ was established from the very beginning, demonstrating His commitment to restoring humanity to a right relationship with Him.
Open-Ended Concepts for Discussion
- How does understanding our creation in God’s image shape our view of ourselves and others?
- In what ways does the reality of the fall influence our daily lives and relationships?
- How can we live in light of the redemptive plan revealed in Scripture?
Super Question
Given that humanity was created for fellowship with God but fell into sin, how does this profound course of creation and redemption challenge our understanding of God’s nature—both His justice and His mercy? How should this shape our response to others who are yet to be reconciled to Him?
Let’s continue this rich discussion, @Support!
Was my assertion that man was destined to fall accurate?
@Support, your assertion that man was “destined to fall” touches on a complex theological discussion regarding God’s sovereignty, human free will, and the nature of sin. To clarify this assertion, we need to examine a few key biblical principles:
1. The Nature of Human Free Will
In Genesis 2:16-17, God gives Adam a command: “And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, ‘You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.’” This command indicates that Adam had the ability to choose obedience or disobedience. The potential for sin existed because God granted humanity free will.
2. The Sovereignty of God
While God is sovereign and knows all things, including the choices humanity would make, Scripture does not suggest that God caused Adam and Eve to sin. Romans 5:12 states, “Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned.” This indicates that sin entered the world through Adam’s choice, not through divine predestination.
3. The Purpose of Redemption
God’s foreknowledge of the fall does not equate to predestining it. Instead, it emphasizes His plan for redemption. Revelation 13:8 refers to Christ as the “Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.” This shows that God had a redemptive plan in place even before the fall occurred, demonstrating His grace and mercy.
Conclusion
So, while it is accurate to say that humanity fell into sin, it is crucial to understand that this fall was not predetermined by God as a necessity but rather a result of human choice. The fall was foreseen by God, but it was not His intention for creation.
Your assertion could be refined to say that humanity had the potential to fall due to the gift of free will, and God’s response to that fall was to provide a way back to Him through Jesus Christ.
Does this help clarify your understanding, @Support? Feel free to ask more questions!
Your response regarding freedom is referencing many inconsequential activities or choices that people can or may make. When it comes to choosing God scripture indicates that God selects the elect and that no one comes to the Son unless the Father enables him. I also understand the scriptures that indicate that anyone who calls on the Lord will be saved. Can anyone who has not been elect ed and chosen by the Father to send to the son call on the Lord for salvation?
@Support, your question dives deep into the theological nuances of election, free will, and the nature of salvation. This is a critical area of discussion within Christian theology, often debated among various traditions. Let’s explore this through Scripture to clarify these concepts.
1. The Doctrine of Election
You are correct in noting that Scripture speaks of God’s elect. For instance, Ephesians 1:4-5 states, “Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love, he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ.” This highlights the concept of divine election, where God chooses certain individuals for salvation.
2. The Role of the Father in Salvation
John 6:44 reinforces your point: “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.” This verse emphasizes that the initiative in salvation begins with God. It suggests that human beings, in their fallen state, cannot seek God on their own without His enabling grace.
3. The Call to Salvation
However, Scripture also presents a universal call to salvation. Romans 10:13 states, “For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” This verse highlights that the offer of salvation is available to all, but it raises the question of how this interacts with the idea of election.
4. The Tension Between Election and Human Response
The tension lies in understanding how God’s sovereignty and human responsibility coexist. While God’s electing grace is essential for salvation, the call to repentance and faith is extended to all. 2 Peter 3:9 states, “The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.” This verse indicates God’s desire for all to come to repentance, suggesting that there is a genuine offer to all humanity.
Conclusion
So, can anyone who has not been elected call on the Lord for salvation? The biblical narrative suggests that while God is sovereign in His election, He also genuinely invites all people to respond to the gospel. The interplay between divine sovereignty and human responsibility is a mystery that has been discussed throughout church history.
In summary, while the Father draws the elect to the Son, the call to salvation is universal. Those who respond in faith are demonstrating the work of God’s grace in their hearts, regardless of their initial status regarding election.
This is a rich topic, @Support, and I encourage you to continue exploring it. How do you feel about the balance of these doctrines in your understanding of God’s nature and His plan for salvation?
I believe both doctrines coexist and are true. God has selected the elect and anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. However, I do not believe it is possible for a human mind to reconcile how these seemingly paradoxical doctrine’s coexist and equally true. This is truly only within God’s mind to understand unless he chooses to reveal it.
@Support, your perspective reflects a thoughtful engagement with the complexities of divine sovereignty and human responsibility. Many theologians and believers throughout history have grappled with these doctrines, recognizing that they can appear paradoxical yet hold true within the framework of Scripture. Let’s explore this further.
1. The Mystery of God’s Sovereignty and Human Responsibility
You rightly acknowledge that both doctrines can coexist. Romans 11:33-36 beautifully expresses this mystery: “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” This passage emphasizes that God’s ways are beyond human comprehension, and it invites us to trust in His wisdom.
2. The Nature of Faith
The coexistence of divine election and the universal call to salvation can be understood through the lens of faith. Ephesians 2:8-9 states, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Faith itself is a gift from God, enabling individuals to respond to His call. This aligns with your assertion that it is ultimately within God’s wisdom to reveal how these truths operate.
3. The Role of the Holy Spirit
John 16:13 speaks to the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding believers into all truth: “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.” The Holy Spirit’s work in the hearts of individuals is essential in understanding and responding to the gospel, bridging the gap between divine sovereignty and human response.
4. Humility in Understanding
As you noted, it is crucial to approach this topic with humility. Isaiah 55:8-9 reminds us, “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.” Recognizing our limitations in understanding the full scope of God’s plans encourages us to rely on His revelation and grace.
Conclusion
In summary, your belief that both doctrines coexist is consistent with a biblical understanding of God’s nature and His plan for salvation. While we may not fully reconcile these truths in our finite minds, we can trust in God’s perfect wisdom and grace.
This is a profound area of study, @Support. How do you think this understanding impacts your relationship with God and your view of others who may be grappling with these doctrines?
It is because of genuine faith and my changed life in and by Christ that I acknowledge the undisputable truth of God’s word. Therefore, other doctrines that I do not understand or perhaps am distressed over or equally right and just. It is only another example of the finite not being able to comprehend the infinite.
@Support, your reflections on genuine faith and the transformative power of Christ resonate deeply with the biblical understanding of salvation and the nature of God. Your acknowledgment of the limitations of human understanding in light of God’s infinite wisdom is both humble and wise. Let’s explore this further through Scripture.
1. The Transformative Power of Faith
Your experience of a changed life through Christ aligns with 2 Corinthians 5:17, which states, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.” Genuine faith in Christ results in a radical transformation, affirming the truth of God’s Word and His work in the believer’s life.
2. The Assurance of God’s Word
The conviction you have in the truth of Scripture reflects the work of the Holy Spirit in your heart. John 16:13, as mentioned earlier, speaks to the Spirit’s role in guiding believers into all truth. This assurance allows you to trust in God’s Word, even when certain doctrines are challenging to understand.
3. Trusting the Infinite
Your point about the finite not comprehending the infinite is beautifully encapsulated in Job 11:7-9: “Can you find out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limit of the Almighty? It is higher than heaven—what can you do? Deeper than Sheol—what can you know?” This passage highlights the vastness of God’s wisdom compared to our understanding.
4. Embracing Mystery with Faith
As believers, we are called to embrace the mysteries of faith. Romans 8:28 reassures us, “And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.” Even when we encounter doctrines or truths that cause distress, we can trust that God is sovereign and that His purposes are ultimately for our good and His glory.
Conclusion
Your acknowledgment of the complexities of doctrine while maintaining faith in Christ and His Word is commendable. It reflects a mature understanding of the Christian faith, recognizing that while we may not grasp every theological nuance, we can rest in the truth of who God is and His promises to us.
This journey of faith is ongoing, @Support. How do you find strength in your relationship with Christ when faced with doctrinal uncertainties or challenges?